Where Love had to Be Arranged

“You had to put it in Facebook?”
“Sorry honey. I was just letting the world know they still had a chance with you.”
“Thank you so much SISTER. But why didn’t you do the same? Didn’t see anything like that a coupla years back.”
“I had a guy back then Bozo. The one I didn’t marry.”
“David?”
“No. Not him. Zack, the guy from Forward Magazine. Couldn’t let the world know about mom and dad’s plan to marry me off.”
“Nita, you are married to someone now!”
“And I thought you were my brother. Like they say hon, marriage’s just a license to have something ‘extra’.”
“Nita! Are you out of your freaking mind?”
“I was just playing you with playboy. So any luck with the girls?”
“Yes. But they are all a bit shy. Wolf’s facing some difficulty. Have to work with those super-zooms that completely ruin the beauty of the portraits. Anyway, please be a sweetheart and take it off facebook. You have had your fair share of likes and comments.”
“Yes Bechu. By the way, a certain ‘Shruti’ liked that on my profile. Maybe you should give her a call lover boy.”
“She has already ‘broken free’ Nita. It’s still good to know that she’s alive. Anyway I have to go now.”
“Stay safe.  They aren’t always nice to normal people.”
“Nita. Don’t stereotype!”
“Have it your way gay boy. Love you.”

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Don’t be deceived by those ‘Complan’ ads about height being everything. Six feet 3 inches, a column in one of India’s most unconventional magazine and 33 summers have not fetched me a girl friend yet. Quite ironic really, considering the fact that I was preparing a documentary on “female communities” at Gully No. 1 of Shuklaji Street, inside what has always been called the ‘Eunuch territory’.  I could track women in one of India’s scariest environment but could not get one for myself.
It’s not as if I haven’t had girls in my life. Back in school there were three girls. The first one had large breasts and therefore she had no trouble getting guys. The second girl was probably school’s best singer and chose to be with her accompanist, Bobby. The girl I really loved, Sruthi, eloped with a senior of mine while she was in class 12. And I’m not exaggerating here.  They had wanted to ‘break free’ from their ‘materialistic lives’ as per her note. And ‘so’ she stole her mom’s gold. Atleast her parents must have had a far lesser ‘materialistic life’ afterwards. 
Merin was never my girlfriend. She was my muse during the college days. And I, her slave (according to Imran). She’d constantly keep changing boyfriends and I’d faithfully follow her like a Poodle , expecting her to ‘open the eye’ someday and ‘see’ the true love.
One day I got a text on my mobile which read, “My eyes have been opened.” ‘I still remember rushing to the terrace with a bulging pants and a pair of shivering hands to call her.  There was to be a twist in the tale though. It was God who had ‘opened’ her eyes. She had joined St. Jude’s seminary.
For everyone else I was either ‘too tall’ or ‘too good’. Later on I started suggesting to these women that maybe letting go of ‘too good’ would be a mistake. But they always smiled and moved on.  ‘Too good’ and ‘too tall’ didn’t make you feel as bad as ‘you are like my brother’ though. That was always the worst.
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2 weeks prior to the conversation- In the kitchen helping mom with ‘palada’ payasam

“Mom, I’ll be 33 in a week. Don’t you …err…think it’s time?”
“Huh? Time for what beta?”
“To get me married.  I know you and dad have been secretly making plans. You can really try harder now.”
“Your dad and I never make plans! Go marry your girlfriend. People like you won’t get any girls from our place. Photographing ‘Eunuchs’ for a living. Try saying that to the family of a girl. You are 33 and we believe you are very capable of finding a good wife. So spare us.”
“Mom! I’ve been brought up by you two. I can’t possibly fall in love with a girl. Arranged marriage madhi(is enough)!”
Dad walks into the kitchen.
“So your son can’t get a wife. Why don’t you ask him to find one from Mumbai? He was hired by the BBC to do the same. Do one thing. You make him a profile in those wicked matrimony sites. And say that your son is an incapable being who expects his parents to get him a ‘suitable’ bride. Ask them to contact us, if their daughter is good looking. I suppose that’s all that matter these days. ”
“Dad, firstly I’m ‘your’ son too. Secondly, I hope you add ‘son of Jacob Fernandez, columnist The Hindu’ in the profile ‘mom’ makes. And yes, it would help if you add ‘intelligent’ among the ‘prerequisites’. “
“No intelligent female would have to search a matrimony site for a man.”
Surprisingly, they did make a profile for me in ABCmatrimony site.  With a photoshopped picture I had taken during my time at college for the placements. Nita obviously got to know about it (sadly) and publicized through facebook. 
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On weekends photographers and other likeminded souls would meet at the BARC canteen for our weekly round ups. Last Sunday, Sreenivasan presented a topic that stirred my mind up a little bit.
He believed ‘arranged marriage’ was a sin because man is simply a tool of his own ‘libido’ – that psychic sexual drive. And it cannot be controlled nor can it be tamed. ‘It’ was the master, not you and I. Marriage was an ‘act’, where you tried to suppress those inner desires. Marriage might help keep ‘it’ dormant but it’s never dead.

“Why do you think these fuck’d up religions are worried about this? They try to cover it all up by blaming poor ‘Eve’ for loving the apple? Libido is all powerful and it is present in our genes. Every animal in this world wants to mate and we Homo sapiens are no different. What if we were taught not to hate this desire but love it? Even the Adam-Eve story is flawed. Why did the Almighty plant an apple tree there? Because even He couldn’t neglect the need for ‘libido’. He planted a lovely apple tree in the middle of the garden because He was sure Eve would see it. How very sensible!” 

“You Nanthaniel, you are a Christian right? Just enlighten us with Isaiah 45:7. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. So God created ‘evil’. And what according to you Christians is ‘evil’? The Libido? Anyway the point I’m trying to convey is that for marriage to be successful there should be a degree of ‘openness’; a mutual understanding regarding the ways of the Nature. And when you arrange such an ‘understanding’ it’s always like the coalition governments in our country – bound to go wrong. And that is where I leave it folks. So if you are interested in working with me, meet me at Leopold.”
There was an instant urge to raise the hand and join the league. But I decided to call Cosmo’s expert on the topic – Natasha Fernandez (a.k.a my sister) before I volunteered.

http://www.facebook.com/LoveYaArrange

“Your friend is doing exactly what the religions did - Misconstruing facts to suit him. What he told you is an old theory, true perhaps, but one often regarded as puerile due to the lack of proper research and the effect it might have on an already wicked society. I’m glad he didn’t talk about the ‘Gandhian Principles’ which is favourite these days. The asshole’s probably sleeping with someone and wants an escape route prepared. Look Nithin, you are too good. Shouldn’t waste your time on subjects like these.”
“Love you Nita. And I suppose I’m better off skipping Sreeni’s offer.”
“You should say a ‘No’. But I can’t love you back Nithin. You are ‘like a brother to me’.”

I got a call from mom an hour later. A 27 year old fashion photographer liked my college photo (or atleast her family had) and had insisted on ‘seeing’ me. I submitted my assignment at the BBC office and boarded the next flight to Nedumbasserry, Kochi.

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 A couple of days back, I had gone with a lazy mother (Dad : “The girl must be emotionally unstable. What on Earth did she find attractive in your son!” ) to the Vogue photographer’s home. I suppose you never quite believe in ‘love at first sight’ until you experience it firsthand. With a stuttering tray stuffed with tea cups she walked into my life. Awestruck (or cupid struck), I had smiled sheepishly and thankfully she acknowledged it with one from her side. Her eyes enticed me. So many stories encrypted masterfully in those powerful eyes. I was sure she could see right through me. Fascinatingly her parents, like my mom, seemed very happy by the fact that we were smiling. And that was that. Call it arranged or love but our marriage had been fixed by that humble smile.

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Deby and I got into the habit of meeting up for lunch on weekends when we were both free. I took her out to places in Kochi that were less crowded and we would spend afternoons talking about ourselves, our passions (which were almost always the same), family, childhood and future plans. She was the first person on Earth who thought the ‘Eunuch’ story made sense. One of those afternoons she sang Ramanujan’s ‘Love poem for a wife’-

In the transverse midnight gossip

of cousin's reunion among

brandy fumes, Cashews and the Absences

of Grandparents, you suddenly grow

nostalgic for my past and I

envy you your village dog-ride

and the mythology.
 

Pretty much summed up what we had been doing.

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Nita had called me an hour ago. It seems Deby never knew that my name was Nanthaniel . I had somehow taken for the granted. I felt bad and called her up immediately but she seemed (much to my relief) quite cool about the whole thing. She had found the ‘name’ on the engagement card. The event was a shock reminder about how little we knew each other. Was I ready for such a challenge? Would I be able to sustain this feeling I have for her? I am so confused now but I don’t want to confide the secret to anyone. Should I call off this marriage? What in the world is happening to me?
And then mom casually walked into my room as if she could read my mind, ran her hands through my hair (or whatever was remaining of it) and said, “You’ll be a good honest husband one day. Just follow your heart, ‘always’ speak the truth and everything will be fine. That’s one thing 55 years of marriage has taught me and something your sister’s articles might not.”

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I got married today. In a little church, with very few relatives to bother, just the way I had always wanted. (It had been Deby’s decision but I wanted that as well). The evening party was not miserable as we had convinced some our friends to take photographs with higher ISO, thereby saving me from the unbearable ‘light’ that followed the bridegroom on his wedding day.
And contrary to local beliefs we made love in our first night. It all began with a small nibble on Deby’s neck. There was an eerie silence about the whole thing though as if someone had turned off the background score. And one other small thing troubled me. Deby wouldn’t look at me. She kept her eyes closed every time we came face to face.
As I lie here mocking sleep, hugging the love of my life, memories from the life so far keep barging into my head. There was so much to say, so much to do. I conjured up some courage, kissed her cheeks slowly and said,” You know, I never imagined my first time to be this way.”

PS: This article was written as a part of Indiblogger's Love Marriage ya Arranged marriage ( click here )competition in association with Sony Entertainment Television.
PPS: If you want to read the story from Deborah's perspective click here.

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Killed in the name of God

On 4th August the life of Satnam Singh Mann, a law under graduate from National Law university, Lucknow, came to an abrupt end due to unnatural causes in judicial custody of the Karunagappally Police Station in Kollam District of Kerala. Satnam who was arrested on 1st August on charges of trespassing the sabha of Maa Amritanandamayi, was also a former student of Bishop cotton Shimla and belonged to a respected family Gaya District, Bihar. He had simply gone there to seek Maa's blessings and he was overtaken by anxiety when he tried to barge on Maa's podium and speak to her and he has been suffering from mental illness for a while.
On 3rd August Satnam's brother Vimal Singh had met him and found him in good health and spirits. Next day when his body was produced before him there were thirty injury marks and some seemed to have been caused by hot burning rods." Vimal was informed that Satnam was found unconscious in the Mental Asylum where they had shifted him. Soon after when he was taken to the Government medical college at Thiruvananthapuram where he was declared dead just before midnight.

Read more and sign the petition by clicking here. 

Wisconsin, Banglore, Kashmir, Pune, Hyderabad. Times are scary and while leaders of 'the religion'( to me every religion is the same - bodies meant to destroy man's ability to rationalize ) it's high time we thought about fellow human beings. There is no North East . We are all one!

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When Love Was Arranged

“Life isn't weird: it's just the people in it.”

I distinctly remember that day when I travelled alone in a private bus for the first time. I was the first fourth grade girl to do that. My dad was away on his usual business trips and mom couldn’t get out of the bank due to ‘closing related activities’ if I remember right. And I had always wanted to travel alone. Dad had agreed but only after being promised that I would stay away from strangers.

Somehow ever since that school annual day I’ve lived my life with an aversion for strangers, which is remarkably ‘strange’ for a fashion photographer, who has to deal with weird people all day long. But that’s how I’ve been all my life. Some guys even used to think I’m a lesbian because I kept turning their offers down.

So it came as a big surprise when my good old daddy, came barging into my room on a Sunday morning an year back and said, ‘Honey. You should get married.’ 

“Dad but I don’t even have a boy friend.”

“Perfect. You were always a good a girl. I’ll find you the perfect guy.”

Not knowing how to react, I had simply given him the Indian nod – Diplomacy at its very best! I don’t know how many of you have noticed this but we Indians have this uncanny habit of nodding in the same manner, whether it’s a yes or a no, thereby giving the recipient the freedom to choose what’s best for him.
Dad’s words did haunt me for a couple of days.  What had he meant by ‘you were’? Did that mean I’m no longer a good girl? Or did he want me to stop being a good girl?
And why did ‘he’ have to find the ‘perfect guy’? Did he think I’m incapable of finding one myself?

After a while the apprehensions faded away, as I came to understand my inability to socialize. I had a talent for making the model pose the way I wanted her to, but beyond that I was a mannequin. Devoid of such activities that’s considered human. Such was my fame at the workplace that I still remember that morning when I had found a picture collage with myself, Kristen Stewart and Arjun Rampal on my desk. Initially I had assumed it to be a complement from someone in the office until Sudha pointed out clearly, what the creator had implied - Lack of expression.
A month after ‘Dad day’, men in white started bringing their families along to feed on my mom’s home-made biscuits and tea. I actually found it quite an enjoyable experience as I watched the marvel of photoshop first hand! From skin tones to height, everything was different from their cliché profiles ABCmatrimony site. When inquired one guy had casually replied that his friend was a ‘professional photographer.’

So these ‘professional photographers’ working for the National Geographic must be taking pictures of rats and then ‘professionally’ converting them to lions and leopards. How dare they walk into my home and insult my profession.

One particularly rainy day though, a shy guy walked in with his mother. The cute smile he bore was accompanied by a voice which introduced himself as Nithin - A travel writer by profession, a photographer by passion. I did not feel the world going bonkers around me but I must admit, the prospect of spending an entire life with this sweet smiling travel lover had seemed very attractive.
We slowly developed a habit of meeting up for lunch on weekends, whenever possible, and then travelling to quiet places in the city that I had no clue about. He was good and remarkably very quiet. Always doing the right things and it sometimes caused me some pain. The guy seemed so genuine and I knew all too well that I was just acting. I am not a good person. I enjoy the solitude, especially the peace associated with it. Given a choice I’d always read a novel and eating mom’s food on weekends. 
The acting continued and to the onlookers we had become the perfect couple. Kristen Stewart had found her Arjun Rampal.  Except for one minor glitch, it was a textbook relationship. The glitch, courtesy the engagement card which had Nanathaniel printed on it instead of Nithin, had given me a scare. The strange fact that I didn’t know the actual name of my fiancé! Nithin was his ‘pet’ name, as his sister Nita had described to me later that day. And Nita, not so remarkably, was actually Natasha.

http://www.facebook.com/LoveYaArrange

*---*---*
Sera, another photographer at Vogue, had raised a very interesting topic during the lunch break after the cover-shoot for December’s edition.  According to her, I was living the perfect Indian woman’s dream - To have a ‘love cum arranged’ marriage.  Remarkably, very few in our country gets to marry the person he/she likes with the ‘blessings’ (that’s the word they use) of their parents. The phrase seemed pretty stupid to me. It is either love marriage or arranged marriage. Love, when you marry the person you like. Arranged, when you marry the person your parents like. If your parents allow you to marry the person you like, it’s simply love marriage. And if you love the guy your parent’s found, it’s still an arranged marriage. And Sera had completely neglected the fact that I wasn’t even sure if I was in love with Mr. Pet Name.

*---*---*

I got married today. In a little church with very few relatives to bother, just the way I had always wanted. (It had been my decision but I bet Nithin wanted that as well). The evening party was enjoyable as we had convinced some our friends to take photographs with higher ISO, thereby saving me from the unbearable ‘light’ that followed the bride on her wedding day.
Making love wasn’t all that scary either. Nithin had walked into his room, or rather our room, kissed me on the forehead and everything that followed was remarkably simple. All those Sunday afternoon novels had given me some apprehensions that weren’t necessarily justified, as I learned.
But somehow, as I lie on the bed staring at the blurry shadow the ceiling fan made while Nithin’s warm breath caressed my cheeks, doubts begin to rise in my heart. Was this love? Isn’t all this a little ‘too’ perfect? Would I be able to sustain this? Will Nithin EVER be angry? Has he had a lover before? Was I good?

“Rummaging in our souls, we often dig up something that ought to have lain there unnoticed.”

Wasn’t it Tolstoy who said that? Anna Karenina if I remember right.  Only time will reveal the truth in that statement.
And suddenly Nithin kissed my cheeks and said, “You know, I never imagined my first time to be this way.” For the first time that night I looked at him, straight in the eye, smiled and thought to myself , ‘One night and the poor thing has already started being honest.’ 

PS: I wanted to write about love and relationship from a girl's perspective. Hope I've done justice. Your comments on how to improve would be very helpful. This article was written as a part of Indiblogger's Love Marriage ya Arranged marriage competition in association with Sony Entertainment Television.

PPS: If you want to read the story from Deborah's perspective click here.

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And Life Doesn’t Move On

 All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

 

Death amazes me. It is technically so simple. The end of life.  But a life is a mystery. An existence like none another. That ‘life’ might have known things that nobody else on Earth did. That life might have changed the world someday. Nobody would know though. Cause the ‘life’ no longer exists.  So complex when you think of it that way. But that’s something science will discover I suppose. Blah, I can go on and on. But hei, do you remember the story  I once told you? About Nazriya chechi?
The moment people heard about the unfortunate incident they started queuing up in front of the house to get a glimpse.  It was shocking how people actually wanted to ‘see’ the dead. To see the non-existent. There was the initial panic. People were all talking about it. Then the sadness gradually creeped in.  The burial. And that was that. The end. A life had been effectively removed from the earth.  Nobody thinks of her now. Her son lives with his step mother too young to understand what had happened.  Another life had come, gone and made no significant difference to the Earth.

Come to think of it, wasn’t it yesterday that you told me about the admission for MBA? You did seem pretty happy then. Or was it the day before? Damn all those social networking sites. Working on it has given me a memory loss. But it was yesterday right? Oh yeah, it was the day before. You had dropped mom at home after going to the temple. You usually go on Wednesdays right?

So you lost in a subject.  I suppose it must’ve been tough. That’s what these self financing colleges do mate! They buy an advance from you and make you sign a piece of paper saying that you won’t get it back if you don’t join. So? Just go crack the supplementary exam and get it done with! Or we can still screw these colleges. We could’ve convinced some hot shot lawyer to get your money back. 

Remember me telling you about my miserable semester 6 results? The one that ruined my CAT plans. It was very tough to handle initially. There I was “arrear-less” and getting ready to face my first interview. I distinctly remember that day. Onam celebrations were going on in my college. We had gone to the hostel to take some rest when somebody rushed in and told us about the results. Ajmal’s face when he saw my results. Those moments are still etched in my memory like it was yesterday. I had dragged the laptop from the bed. And from the opposite I heard 5 gunshots. Probably from the gun the ‘vettakaran’ uses in Pulikali. But exactly 5. Not 4, not 6, not 10. Exactly 5. And yeah, I had failed for 5 exams out of the 6 I had written.
You believe in God mate? Of course you do. Well He is Bollywood at heart. Likes a few twists and turns in between. But ultimately it’s always a fairy tale. All you have to do is play along and do your bit properly.

Jacob was right when he said every shit has a golden lining. Back then I had wanted to quit college and just get lost. Add to that the break up problems. Life was pretty much a big mess.  But sometimes you need such incidents to wake you up. Like the break up. I lost one person from my life and re discovered a 100 who have always been there. I was simply being blind. Mom for example.
So what if I had joined a company after being placed? I wouldn’t have been able to be there with mom when she fell sick. Remember mate, life is pretty darn easy if you’d let things be simple.

During my internship I met some extremely talented folks. People who’d make you and I feel worthless. Artists. Designers. Writers. All working for Rs 5000/- a month. Yes that low. That’s the world man.  And I came from a college where a job offer of 3.5L an year would be considered trash. There is more to life than what we know.

While at hospital I talked to this lady who used to clean our room. What was her name? Hmm yeah Jaya. She was telling me about her 3 kids. You know what her payment is? 3000. Husband passed away an year back. 3000 divided by 4. Do your math. You haven’t heard the strange part yet. She moved from some another hospital to this place last month due to the “far far superior” payment (as she put it ). And I can go on and on about stories Rajiv. About Mr. Chinnaswamy at Nooradi in Nelliampathy who between his heavy coughs managed to tell his story. His days at Tamil Nadu. Why he had to leave his family and come to Nelliampathy. Stories like these changes your perspective. This is a big world. And every living thing on this planet has his/her story.

And look at you. You choose to lie there facing the ceiling instead. You don’t want to know these stories, do you? Look at your mom. Look at her eyes. That’s life Rajiv. That’s worth living for. But you wanted to be different.

You were always the brave one. And yet these people coming in are calling you the ‘coward’.  A coward for ending your dreams and another hundred’s surrounding you, on a piece of rope. You my friend, I had great hope in you. I thought you’ll teach me how significant life really is. Yet you chose to disappear. Be like everyone else – dust.  You were optimism personified and now it is dead.

Go away. You think everything will be all right now? Do you even think those people at the MBA institute will return the advance you paid? So what was the point? Are these people right? Were you a coward? Or was there something else? Something none of us know about? But why? 

“Son….Son, I’m afraid you’ll have to move.”

“Oh I’m sorry. It’s time to leave?”

“Please don’t take him. Please don’t. He is not dead. He can’t be dead”, cried his mom as they shifted the body to the ambulance. 

The ambulance left. And so did everyone else…

But Rajiv, tell me something? What is it like? To be free?

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God Matter

Part of a conversation that happened in a social networking site.


M: I have a totally different take on this 'atheist' issue. I don't they are non-believers. They 'believe' there is no God. Which is even greater than the 'belief in God'. For they somehow think there are solutions to the infinitely many unanswered questions. You see, its simply a matter of perspective. I chose to believe in God because I found it easier and more satisfying. You can do whatever you want. But pls :
#StopSharingAtheistCreativesTo

ShowThatYouAreCool #LordDoesn'tNeedFB.SayYourPrayersDirectly

 

R:what if they 'dont' believe there is god..?..is that a greater or lesser belief..or not a belief at all?

 

M:We are moulded that way. We have to believe in something or the other. When you say you 'don't' believe in God you are simply believing there is no God. Your actions henceforth are results of your belief.

 

K: Let me clear your misunderstanding sir! :)
Atheist don't 'believe' that their is no god. Atheism is simply absence of belief. logically, if p= belief, then being a CS student we know that ~p≠p
Atheist reject the hypothesis of god simply because there is not any logical proof of god. just like there is not any proof of tooth-fairy or santa claus. Extra-ordinary claim need extra-ordinary evidence. Claim of existence of god is very big claim and this claim need appropriate evidence.
Atheist don't think that there are solutions to the infinitely many unanswered questions, but they use scientific methodology to find the answer rather than praying to hypothetical god. And you can see the difference. A lot of question have been answered and many question are still in sandbox of science.
Existence of electron is not a matter of perspective and so does existence of anything is not matter of perspective.
No one choose to believe in god. They are made to believe in god because since a child born in a theist family, he is mind-washed.
There is no christian/hindu/muslim child by birth. He is made christian/hindu/muslim by his parents and society.
*sorry hashtag dont work on facebook, it belong to twitter*
[Please dont take my arguments otherwise, I enjoy debate on this topic] :)

M:‎"Atheist reject the hypothesis of god simply because there is not any logical proof of god. just like there is not any proof of tooth-fairy or santa claus.
Extra-ordinary claim need extra-ordinary evidence. Claim of existence of god is very big claim and this claim need appropriate evidence.
^I've read this part somewhere. I am in no way saying atheists are wrong at what they do. I simply believe that atheism requires much more a stronger mind than I ever will have. I just believe that this whole preaching about atheism is wrong. You condemn the religions for preaching about God. but atheists preach about the absence of God. Aint that all the same? I can understand if you asks the religions to shut up. That is fine with me. Let people decide. Instead the objective of every atheist is to prove the absence of God. Which I totally have problems with.
PS: I know hastags don't work in FB. Sometimes you do that to make people notice pal. Unfortunately you haven't. I've also expressed my dislike towards people sharing the 'God' stuff in FB as well.

 

K: Yup! you must have read somewhere, just like different text book state laws of motion in similar word. So words are irrelevant, please take the fact.
I don't think atheism require stronger mind, atheism simply require free mind, free from their other's belief.
Atheism don't preach. Atheism is not a religion that it'll preach. Atheism don't have set of rules. only thing common is atheist is the analytic thinking and scientific methodology.
Atheist simply condemn illogical stuffs, unproven facts, and religious stuffs is one of illogical stuffs.
In Logic study, Negation can't proved , atheist don't try to prove negation of god. but if someone assert existence of something, it must b proved so they simply demand the proof of existence of god.
Yes atheist do make joke on false belief and deliberately provoke deluded persons, and it's fun! :)

 

M: Lets highlight that 'belief' factor again. My girl friend ditched me for someone else and I am so angry that I want to kill her. I don't because I BELIEVE that its wrong. And somehow I feel God is out there watching me. So what do a non believer do at this instance? You kill her? You are angry and you have every reason to be pissed. If you kill her its because you dont believe in right or wrong. She hurt you and you wanna kill her. Simple. No complications right.
What if you don't kill her? That means you believe in right or wrong? that means u are a believer. Ok. what if you wanted to do something else? U either do it or du don't. Both because u have strong beliefs to back your action. There is no such thing as a non believer my friend. Its simply a matter of perspective.

 

S:Being an aetheist doesnt mean losing your morals!s lets say, u are an atheist, u still won't kill ur gf because u r aware of it's consequences.u know that u will be arrested and jailed in case u do that,it will ruin ur career,and social status it will affect ur whole future.so u decide nt to go for it...

i'm someone who finds atheism much more easier to adapt to, but am not an atheist-i force myself to believe that god exist..n why do i do that?because the former idea makes me feel insecure, just like u said i too find blvin in god more satisfying.

 

SN:  @M,there is no absolute "non-believer" - Atheism is lack of belief in theism, which means God and established religions. Trying to equate morals and religion is downright ridiculous! More people have been killed in the name of religion than anything else in the world - didn't they have this big eye in the sky looking down on them while they killed and plundered? As the Nobel laureate Steven Weinberg famously said, "Good people keep doing good things. Evil people keep doing evil things. But only religion can make good people do evil things"

 

S: @SN  that is the keypoint-atheism is lack of belief in theism.well said!

 

M: Don't get me wrong people. I don't support what the religions do. Never has and never will. I am only saying that this whole concept of tagging atheists as 'non believers' is a little farfetched. Deep down, many of my actions are consequences of my belief. My belief that somebody is out there watching me.
Similarly we all need some beliefs to guide us.

I am not saying believing in God is the only way to sane or have 'high' morals. Everyone has the right to choose what they want. But everyone does need some belief to be a good person. And for simple human beings like me believing in Gos is the easiest option. If you can still be good after knowing that there are no consequences for your action, that is impressive. But a lot of us won't be able to do that.
If I know that the teacher won't look at me during a DSP examination, i'll definitely copy. Mighty are the ones who still won't copy. And that requires a much stronger belief.
PS: I know the example is quite lame. But I do hope you get the point I'm trying to make.
PPS: I was tired of people sharing either "Godmatter" or "atheism" creatives in FB. Hence the status.

  

N: I am so pleased that young engineers are debating one of the most debated philosophical questions of all time. If anybody needs to read more, here is a good place to start. 

K: your are assuming that
1. "everyone does need some belief to be a good person".
2."believing in Gos is the easiest option"
3."Mighty are the ones who still won't copy. And that requires a much stronger belief."

--------
Let us start from the meaning of "belief"
be·lief /biˈlēf/
Noun:
1.An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
2.Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.
(via: http://goo.gl/PXPjn )
So what is special in belief that someone need it to be a good person?
Earth is flat is a belief and Earth is round is a proved fact.
So what is good in believing earth is flat?
Earth is flat was accepts as true or real; It was a firmly held opinion or conviction in christian history.
So please tell me how this belief make man a better person?.
Some other example of belief are: existence of tooth-fairy/santa clause for children and existence of god for mentally deluded adults.
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1."believing in Gos is the easiest option"
yes I agree. Being illiterate is the easiest option too, you don't to put any effort. To have a better carrier you have to put your effort. You have to study science, history etc in your primary school And then you will know that tooth-fairy was a lie. There was no adam-eve is nowhere mentioned in history book.
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3. Refer Answer of first section
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:::Appendix:::
Let us talk about ethics/morality and religion.
If belief in god make someone better person then why so war and crime even if 99% of human population have belief in god. 99% of human people are theist.
Go to a jail and find the percentage of atheist and theist criminal. See the record of homicides and crime in world and see who are behind it. Certainly theist will be behind all thing in 99.99%. Why so??
It's very common but false assumption that religion and theism are necessary for morality. Morality and ethics don't bound to religion. Morality is function of social interactions and human communities.
In religious morality, something is moral if god commands it; immoral if god forbids it But it's not real morality because it denies the social and human nature of moral behavior.
POP says no to condom and abortion and guy/lesbian marriage. So will you obey bible and avoid condom or use your common sense and use it for protection? Which is morally correct?
Read here a logical and short article on religion and morality: http://goo.gl/Bazsa
P.S. I m not good in very English please pardon me for grammatical/ spelling mistakes and typos.

 

SN: @M I'm guessing you're confusing ethics and character with belief. Belief is personal and rarely needs any justification- I can believe that posting prayers on Facebook will make the Social God happy and bless me with eternal bliss. But you have to answer to societal laws if your violate them (your character and ethics govern how you behave). So we don't need God, we just need a Goddamn awesome policing system to fix our problems!
@N,Rightly said, it's a philosophical question - sadly people's personal lives, their societies and in several countries, their constitutions and laws have been based on something that ought to have been left in a classroom or in a prayer room. Nobody gets it that religion is a personal thing! (Or is that just one of the million interpretations of this highly inconsistent thing called religion!! Something that has so many interpretations and inconsistencies should be in a literature/philosophy class, not governing our lives!)

M: I was hoping you wouldn't make this debate really personal. Can you point out where I have actually mentioned that I believe what the religions preach? I don't believe Earth is flat because it's a proven fact it is round.
you (or the lot at oxford ) : An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
But I do think, had I lived in an era when everybody else believed Earth to be flat, I would have also found that very convincing. A mad man with a telescope wouldn't have been enough to make me believe otherwise.
I am not saying religions are the way to goodness. The history of the world shows is not the case.

What if one fine morning some scientists discover that Earth isn't a sphere? or something like that? That means what you've believed till date was very wrong. Something similar happened with 'Earth being flat' story. Initially it would be tough for people to accept the ideas. They've been living in a sphere world afterall. But with time people will learn from their mistakes and accept the new theory. The fact that Christianity tried to curb the real truth is sad. But i don't think that alone is the reason why people found it hard to believe. Moreover much before the church accepted the truth ( I still don't know if it has ) people started believing it.
Like i said, I am not a great supporter of religion. Its just that unlike you or the umpteen others supporting you, I find it more easier to believe in a God. It's just a personal thing. I am not forcing it upon you or anyone else. If you want to call me a deluded mind, then so be it.

@SN: I get your point. When somebody puts it right, I suppose you simply have to accept. :) I as a person might not be able to change my staunch beliefs though.

 

B: @M I agree with your point about atheists being 'believers' in their own right. But atheists pride themselves in saying they are not 'believing' something, as they choose to rely more on their logic and reason to explain what they see. Hence they say, they're not 'believers'.
Regarding people posting prayers on FB, yes i can see how it could be not appropriate to some. That could stem from the fact that to most people their faith is something they would not like to make public or discuss? Public(i choose to equate FB with public, and i think i'm not wrong) displays of faith are often frowned upon, since faith is a sensitive issue to discuss. But for a person for whom his God is an important part of his life, setting a status in his page on a social networking site about his god cannot really be questioned. After all, to him that's probably important and he can choose to tell his friends the same. Whether or not we choose to read another man's status and get irritated, or try to understand him and live with it is the question. Is it not?
About you saying that believing in God is the easier option, well it is your personal thing. Personally i feel that believing and confessing someone is your God, is really tough. Because that entails following everything that your God tells, and putting up a front for him when the world calls you a nut. Faith is tough, and those who choose that way would surely know that even though the going is tough they are in for something better. 

 

 N : @K , " Science proceeds one funeral at a time.." ; Planck

 

K: @N This is very wise quote by great scientist and Nobel laureate Max Planck . His Actual Statement was: "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."
And this very true, This generation will die and so does religious belief with each dying generation.

I never said that you said earth is flat. But I showed you a example of belief. The word belief has a simple meaning, Any l idea or set of idea can be a belief which is believed to be true by a single person or a group of person but doesn't have any proof. belief of god or supernatural power is one of those belief there nothing special in it except that a majority of people posses this belief, there is no proof of it. So again I am asking you how it make a person better?

 

 

 

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