4:30 AM
Nevin
Part of a conversation that happened in a social networking site.
M: I have a totally different take on this 'atheist' issue. I don't they are non-believers. They 'believe' there is no God. Which is even greater than the 'belief in God'. For they somehow think there are solutions to the infinitely many unanswered questions. You see, its simply a matter of perspective. I chose to believe in God because I found it easier and more satisfying. You can do whatever you want. But pls :
#StopSharingAtheistCreativesTo
M: I have a totally different take on this 'atheist' issue. I don't they are non-believers. They 'believe' there is no God. Which is even greater than the 'belief in God'. For they somehow think there are solutions to the infinitely many unanswered questions. You see, its simply a matter of perspective. I chose to believe in God because I found it easier and more satisfying. You can do whatever you want. But pls :
#StopSharingAtheistCreativesTo
R:what if they 'dont' believe there is god..?..is that a greater or lesser belief..or not a belief at all?
M:We are moulded that way. We
have to believe in something or the other. When you say you 'don't'
believe in God you are simply believing there is no God. Your actions
henceforth are results of your belief.
K: Let me clear your misunderstanding sir! :)
Atheist don't 'believe' that their is no god. Atheism is simply absence of belief. logically, if p= belief, then being a CS student we know that ~p≠p
Atheist reject the hypothesis of god simply because there is not any logical proof of god. just like there is not any proof of tooth-fairy or santa claus. Extra-ordinary claim need extra-ordinary evidence. Claim of existence of god is very big claim and this claim need appropriate evidence.
Atheist don't think that there are solutions to the infinitely many unanswered questions, but they use scientific methodology to find the answer rather than praying to hypothetical god. And you can see the difference. A lot of question have been answered and many question are still in sandbox of science.
Existence of electron is not a matter of perspective and so does existence of anything is not matter of perspective.
No one choose to believe in god. They are made to believe in god because since a child born in a theist family, he is mind-washed.
There is no christian/hindu/muslim child by birth. He is made christian/hindu/muslim by his parents and society.
*sorry hashtag dont work on facebook, it belong to twitter*
[Please dont take my arguments otherwise, I enjoy debate on this topic] :)
Atheist don't 'believe' that their is no god. Atheism is simply absence of belief. logically, if p= belief, then being a CS student we know that ~p≠p
Atheist reject the hypothesis of god simply because there is not any logical proof of god. just like there is not any proof of tooth-fairy or santa claus. Extra-ordinary claim need extra-ordinary evidence. Claim of existence of god is very big claim and this claim need appropriate evidence.
Atheist don't think that there are solutions to the infinitely many unanswered questions, but they use scientific methodology to find the answer rather than praying to hypothetical god. And you can see the difference. A lot of question have been answered and many question are still in sandbox of science.
Existence of electron is not a matter of perspective and so does existence of anything is not matter of perspective.
No one choose to believe in god. They are made to believe in god because since a child born in a theist family, he is mind-washed.
There is no christian/hindu/muslim child by birth. He is made christian/hindu/muslim by his parents and society.
*sorry hashtag dont work on facebook, it belong to twitter*
[Please dont take my arguments otherwise, I enjoy debate on this topic] :)
M:"Atheist reject the
hypothesis of god simply because there is not any logical proof of god.
just like there is not any proof of tooth-fairy or santa claus.
Extra-ordinary claim need extra-ordinary evidence. Claim of existence of god is very big claim and this claim need appropriate evidence.
^I've read this part somewhere. I am in no way saying atheists are wrong at what they do. I simply believe that atheism requires much more a stronger mind than I ever will have. I just believe that this whole preaching about atheism is wrong. You condemn the religions for preaching about God. but atheists preach about the absence of God. Aint that all the same? I can understand if you asks the religions to shut up. That is fine with me. Let people decide. Instead the objective of every atheist is to prove the absence of God. Which I totally have problems with.
PS: I know hastags don't work in FB. Sometimes you do that to make people notice pal. Unfortunately you haven't. I've also expressed my dislike towards people sharing the 'God' stuff in FB as well.
Extra-ordinary claim need extra-ordinary evidence. Claim of existence of god is very big claim and this claim need appropriate evidence.
^I've read this part somewhere. I am in no way saying atheists are wrong at what they do. I simply believe that atheism requires much more a stronger mind than I ever will have. I just believe that this whole preaching about atheism is wrong. You condemn the religions for preaching about God. but atheists preach about the absence of God. Aint that all the same? I can understand if you asks the religions to shut up. That is fine with me. Let people decide. Instead the objective of every atheist is to prove the absence of God. Which I totally have problems with.
PS: I know hastags don't work in FB. Sometimes you do that to make people notice pal. Unfortunately you haven't. I've also expressed my dislike towards people sharing the 'God' stuff in FB as well.
K: Yup! you must have read
somewhere, just like different text book state laws of motion in
similar word. So words are irrelevant, please take the fact.
I don't think atheism require stronger mind, atheism simply require free mind, free from their other's belief.
Atheism don't preach. Atheism is not a religion that it'll preach. Atheism don't have set of rules. only thing common is atheist is the analytic thinking and scientific methodology.
Atheist simply condemn illogical stuffs, unproven facts, and religious stuffs is one of illogical stuffs.
In Logic study, Negation can't proved , atheist don't try to prove negation of god. but if someone assert existence of something, it must b proved so they simply demand the proof of existence of god.
Yes atheist do make joke on false belief and deliberately provoke deluded persons, and it's fun! :)
I don't think atheism require stronger mind, atheism simply require free mind, free from their other's belief.
Atheism don't preach. Atheism is not a religion that it'll preach. Atheism don't have set of rules. only thing common is atheist is the analytic thinking and scientific methodology.
Atheist simply condemn illogical stuffs, unproven facts, and religious stuffs is one of illogical stuffs.
In Logic study, Negation can't proved , atheist don't try to prove negation of god. but if someone assert existence of something, it must b proved so they simply demand the proof of existence of god.
Yes atheist do make joke on false belief and deliberately provoke deluded persons, and it's fun! :)
M: Lets highlight that 'belief'
factor again. My girl friend ditched me for someone else and I am so
angry that I want to kill her. I don't because I BELIEVE that its wrong.
And somehow I feel God is out there watching me. So what do a non
believer do at this instance? You kill her? You are angry and you have
every reason to be pissed. If you kill her its because you dont believe
in right or wrong. She hurt you and you wanna kill her. Simple. No
complications right.
What if you don't kill her? That means you believe in right or wrong? that means u are a believer. Ok. what if you wanted to do something else? U either do it or du don't. Both because u have strong beliefs to back your action. There is no such thing as a non believer my friend. Its simply a matter of perspective.
What if you don't kill her? That means you believe in right or wrong? that means u are a believer. Ok. what if you wanted to do something else? U either do it or du don't. Both because u have strong beliefs to back your action. There is no such thing as a non believer my friend. Its simply a matter of perspective.
S:Being an aetheist doesnt
mean losing your morals!s lets say, u are an atheist, u still won't kill
ur gf because u r aware of it's consequences.u know that u will be
arrested and jailed in case u do that,it will ruin ur career,and social
status it will affect ur whole future.so u decide nt to go for it...
i'm someone who finds
atheism much more easier to adapt to, but am not an atheist-i force
myself to believe that god exist..n why do i do that?because the former
idea makes me feel insecure, just like u said i too find blvin in god
more satisfying.
SN: @M,there is no absolute
"non-believer" - Atheism is lack of belief in theism, which means God
and established religions. Trying to equate morals and religion is
downright ridiculous! More people have been killed in the name of
religion than anything else in the world - didn't they have this big eye
in the sky looking down on them while they killed and plundered? As the
Nobel laureate Steven Weinberg famously said, "Good people keep doing
good things. Evil people keep doing evil things. But only religion can
make good people do evil things"
S: @SN that is the keypoint-atheism is lack of belief in theism.well said!
M: Don't get me wrong people. I
don't support what the religions do. Never has and never will. I am
only saying that this whole concept of tagging atheists as 'non
believers' is a little farfetched. Deep down, many of my actions are
consequences of my belief. My belief that somebody is out there watching
me.
Similarly we all need some beliefs to guide us.
Similarly we all need some beliefs to guide us.
I am not saying believing in
God is the only way to sane or have 'high' morals. Everyone has the
right to choose what they want. But everyone does need some belief to be
a good person. And for simple human beings like me believing in Gos is
the easiest option. If you can still be good after knowing that there
are no consequences for your action, that is impressive. But a lot of us
won't be able to do that.
If I know that the teacher won't look at me during a DSP examination, i'll definitely copy. Mighty are the ones who still won't copy. And that requires a much stronger belief.
PS: I know the example is quite lame. But I do hope you get the point I'm trying to make.
PPS: I was tired of people sharing either "Godmatter" or "atheism" creatives in FB. Hence the status.
If I know that the teacher won't look at me during a DSP examination, i'll definitely copy. Mighty are the ones who still won't copy. And that requires a much stronger belief.
PS: I know the example is quite lame. But I do hope you get the point I'm trying to make.
PPS: I was tired of people sharing either "Godmatter" or "atheism" creatives in FB. Hence the status.
N: I am so pleased that young
engineers are debating one of the most debated philosophical questions
of all time. If anybody needs to read more, here is a good place to start.
K: your are assuming that
1. "everyone does need some belief to be a good person".
2."believing in Gos is the easiest option"
3."Mighty are the ones who still won't copy. And that requires a much stronger belief."
--------
Let us start from the meaning of "belief"
be·lief /biˈlÄ“f/
Noun:
1.An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
2.Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.
(via: http://goo.gl/PXPjn )
So what is special in belief that someone need it to be a good person?
Earth is flat is a belief and Earth is round is a proved fact.
So what is good in believing earth is flat?
Earth is flat was accepts as true or real; It was a firmly held opinion or conviction in christian history.
So please tell me how this belief make man a better person?.
Some other example of belief are: existence of tooth-fairy/santa clause for children and existence of god for mentally deluded adults.
----------
1."believing in Gos is the easiest option"
yes I agree. Being illiterate is the easiest option too, you don't to put any effort. To have a better carrier you have to put your effort. You have to study science, history etc in your primary school And then you will know that tooth-fairy was a lie. There was no adam-eve is nowhere mentioned in history book.
-----------
3. Refer Answer of first section
-----------
:::Appendix:::
Let us talk about ethics/morality and religion.
If belief in god make someone better person then why so war and crime even if 99% of human population have belief in god. 99% of human people are theist.
Go to a jail and find the percentage of atheist and theist criminal. See the record of homicides and crime in world and see who are behind it. Certainly theist will be behind all thing in 99.99%. Why so??
It's very common but false assumption that religion and theism are necessary for morality. Morality and ethics don't bound to religion. Morality is function of social interactions and human communities.
In religious morality, something is moral if god commands it; immoral if god forbids it But it's not real morality because it denies the social and human nature of moral behavior.
POP says no to condom and abortion and guy/lesbian marriage. So will you obey bible and avoid condom or use your common sense and use it for protection? Which is morally correct?
Read here a logical and short article on religion and morality: http://goo.gl/Bazsa
P.S. I m not good in very English please pardon me for grammatical/ spelling mistakes and typos.
1. "everyone does need some belief to be a good person".
2."believing in Gos is the easiest option"
3."Mighty are the ones who still won't copy. And that requires a much stronger belief."
--------
Let us start from the meaning of "belief"
be·lief /biˈlÄ“f/
Noun:
1.An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
2.Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.
(via: http://goo.gl/PXPjn )
So what is special in belief that someone need it to be a good person?
Earth is flat is a belief and Earth is round is a proved fact.
So what is good in believing earth is flat?
Earth is flat was accepts as true or real; It was a firmly held opinion or conviction in christian history.
So please tell me how this belief make man a better person?.
Some other example of belief are: existence of tooth-fairy/santa clause for children and existence of god for mentally deluded adults.
----------
1."believing in Gos is the easiest option"
yes I agree. Being illiterate is the easiest option too, you don't to put any effort. To have a better carrier you have to put your effort. You have to study science, history etc in your primary school And then you will know that tooth-fairy was a lie. There was no adam-eve is nowhere mentioned in history book.
-----------
3. Refer Answer of first section
-----------
:::Appendix:::
Let us talk about ethics/morality and religion.
If belief in god make someone better person then why so war and crime even if 99% of human population have belief in god. 99% of human people are theist.
Go to a jail and find the percentage of atheist and theist criminal. See the record of homicides and crime in world and see who are behind it. Certainly theist will be behind all thing in 99.99%. Why so??
It's very common but false assumption that religion and theism are necessary for morality. Morality and ethics don't bound to religion. Morality is function of social interactions and human communities.
In religious morality, something is moral if god commands it; immoral if god forbids it But it's not real morality because it denies the social and human nature of moral behavior.
POP says no to condom and abortion and guy/lesbian marriage. So will you obey bible and avoid condom or use your common sense and use it for protection? Which is morally correct?
Read here a logical and short article on religion and morality: http://goo.gl/Bazsa
P.S. I m not good in very English please pardon me for grammatical/ spelling mistakes and typos.
SN: @M I'm guessing you're confusing
ethics and character with belief. Belief is personal and rarely needs
any justification- I can believe that posting prayers on Facebook will
make the Social God happy and bless me with eternal bliss. But you have
to answer to societal laws if your violate them (your character and
ethics govern how you behave). So we don't need God, we just need a
Goddamn awesome policing system to fix our problems!
@N,Rightly said, it's a philosophical question - sadly people's personal lives, their societies and in several countries, their constitutions and laws have been based on something that ought to have been left in a classroom or in a prayer room. Nobody gets it that religion is a personal thing! (Or is that just one of the million interpretations of this highly inconsistent thing called religion!! Something that has so many interpretations and inconsistencies should be in a literature/philosophy class, not governing our lives!)
@N,Rightly said, it's a philosophical question - sadly people's personal lives, their societies and in several countries, their constitutions and laws have been based on something that ought to have been left in a classroom or in a prayer room. Nobody gets it that religion is a personal thing! (Or is that just one of the million interpretations of this highly inconsistent thing called religion!! Something that has so many interpretations and inconsistencies should be in a literature/philosophy class, not governing our lives!)
M: I was hoping you wouldn't
make this debate really personal. Can you point out where I have
actually mentioned that I believe what the religions preach? I don't
believe Earth is flat because it's a proven fact it is round.
you (or the lot at oxford ) : An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
But I do think, had I lived in an era when everybody else believed Earth to be flat, I would have also found that very convincing. A mad man with a telescope wouldn't have been enough to make me believe otherwise.
I am not saying religions are the way to goodness. The history of the world shows is not the case.
you (or the lot at oxford ) : An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
But I do think, had I lived in an era when everybody else believed Earth to be flat, I would have also found that very convincing. A mad man with a telescope wouldn't have been enough to make me believe otherwise.
I am not saying religions are the way to goodness. The history of the world shows is not the case.
What if one fine morning
some scientists discover that Earth isn't a sphere? or something like
that? That means what you've believed till date was very wrong.
Something similar happened with 'Earth being flat' story. Initially it
would be tough for people to accept the ideas. They've been living in a
sphere world afterall. But with time people will learn from their
mistakes and accept the new theory. The fact that Christianity tried to
curb the real truth is sad. But i don't think that alone is the reason
why people found it hard to believe. Moreover much before the church
accepted the truth ( I still don't know if it has ) people started
believing it.
Like i said, I am not a great supporter of religion. Its just that unlike you or the umpteen others supporting you, I find it more easier to believe in a God. It's just a personal thing. I am not forcing it upon you or anyone else. If you want to call me a deluded mind, then so be it.
Like i said, I am not a great supporter of religion. Its just that unlike you or the umpteen others supporting you, I find it more easier to believe in a God. It's just a personal thing. I am not forcing it upon you or anyone else. If you want to call me a deluded mind, then so be it.
@SN: I get your point. When
somebody puts it right, I suppose you simply have to accept. :) I as a
person might not be able to change my staunch beliefs though.
B: @M I agree with your point
about atheists being 'believers' in their own right. But atheists pride
themselves in saying they are not 'believing' something, as they choose
to rely more on their logic and reason to explain what they see. Hence
they say, they're not 'believers'.
Regarding people posting prayers on FB, yes i can see how it could be not appropriate to some. That could stem from the fact that to most people their faith is something they would not like to make public or discuss? Public(i choose to equate FB with public, and i think i'm not wrong) displays of faith are often frowned upon, since faith is a sensitive issue to discuss. But for a person for whom his God is an important part of his life, setting a status in his page on a social networking site about his god cannot really be questioned. After all, to him that's probably important and he can choose to tell his friends the same. Whether or not we choose to read another man's status and get irritated, or try to understand him and live with it is the question. Is it not?
About you saying that believing in God is the easier option, well it is your personal thing. Personally i feel that believing and confessing someone is your God, is really tough. Because that entails following everything that your God tells, and putting up a front for him when the world calls you a nut. Faith is tough, and those who choose that way would surely know that even though the going is tough they are in for something better.
Regarding people posting prayers on FB, yes i can see how it could be not appropriate to some. That could stem from the fact that to most people their faith is something they would not like to make public or discuss? Public(i choose to equate FB with public, and i think i'm not wrong) displays of faith are often frowned upon, since faith is a sensitive issue to discuss. But for a person for whom his God is an important part of his life, setting a status in his page on a social networking site about his god cannot really be questioned. After all, to him that's probably important and he can choose to tell his friends the same. Whether or not we choose to read another man's status and get irritated, or try to understand him and live with it is the question. Is it not?
About you saying that believing in God is the easier option, well it is your personal thing. Personally i feel that believing and confessing someone is your God, is really tough. Because that entails following everything that your God tells, and putting up a front for him when the world calls you a nut. Faith is tough, and those who choose that way would surely know that even though the going is tough they are in for something better.
N : @K , " Science proceeds one funeral at a time.." ; Planck
K: @N This is very wise quote by
great scientist and Nobel laureate Max Planck . His Actual Statement
was: "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its
opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its
opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar
with it."
And this very true, This generation will die and so does religious belief with each dying generation.
And this very true, This generation will die and so does religious belief with each dying generation.
I never said that you said
earth is flat. But I showed you a example of belief. The word belief has
a simple meaning, Any l idea or set of idea can be a belief which is
believed to be true by a single person or a group of person but doesn't
have any proof. belief of god or supernatural power is one of those
belief there nothing special in it except that a majority of people
posses this belief, there is no proof of it. So again I am asking you
how it make a person better?
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